MAJOR SFI ANNOUNCEMENT & INFO!!!

[troyzone]

This week has certainly been full of surprises on many fronts. Thank you Erich for your honesty and integrity despite the negative impact that your post would have on your own earnings. These qualities in you are the reason you have so many loyal followers here in this forum and elsewhere. There are so many shady marketers on the Internet that don't hesitate to take advantage of others whenever it benefits them, but you've proven time and time again that your heart is in the right place, and this is why so many people stick by you through thick and thin.

Thanks also to Gery for taking the time to post in this forum. It is not every company president that takes this much interest in his affiliates to interact with them directly and value their opinions.

Chris has also made an excellent post and has raised some good points. I was hoping for more specifics to be addressed previously as well. I too am interested in network marketing companies like SFI primarily for residual income...if there is very little residual to be had then it isn't much different than straight sales like with Clickbank. That's probably being overly simplistic but is one of the bottom lines here...residual income.

I am not nearly as experienced with SFI as many people here are and am very small fry compared to most with it, but I am very interested in this discussion and will be following it very closely.

Troy

[garovich]

Erich,

I find it amusing that he thinks that you have somehow drawn the wrong conclusion. After all, it's you cashing the dwindling checks.

Gary

[Erich]

stirls said:

Joe - Clickbank products are worth it as they provide short term income. However the reason I like SFI or network marketing programs is they offer the ability to create short term income with Business Builder Bonuses as well as recurring residual income for the long term.

If Gery can prove to me that the residual income piece is there in the SFI T-net comp plan and it is easy to achieve then SFI is much more attractive to promote than ClickBank products. But currently my income from SFI is 80.5% Business Builder Bonus (short term income) despite being a top sponsor.

You make an excellent point Chris. The overwhelming majority of income from SFI is based on straight commission from your current months sales. There is very little residual income.

Also all of the MAJOR legitimate MLM companies like Shaklee, Herbalife, and Lifeforce ... etc pay their group sales leaders 35-40% commissions based on their individual and group sales volume. That is basically the industry average.

In comparison... The SFI T-net plan is paying me at the rate of about 9% for my individual and group sales volume. This is disgraceful. I certainly would like to know where the other 91% of my sales volume is going???

Other things to consider...

I am making 43% on the sales volume from my Leaders Club Business. In that program I made $4306.50 last month and over $3000 of that was residual commissions. I've only been with the Leaders Club about 18 mos and have referred a total of about 1500 people there. I've been with SFI almost 6 yrs and have referred well over 65,000 people there and make around 9% on my sales volume... and my residuals last month was $1514.00.

We can also earn 50-75% straight commission from most all Click Bank Work At Home sales.

In addition to Click Bank... We can earn at least 40% from our Better Universe sales plus we get paid for the "cash receipts" and "cash back shopping" plans...

The biggest flaw of all in the SFI Compensation plan is the BTL, STL, GTL, and PTL qualifications. You need 2 BTL's to become an STL and 2 STL's to become a GTL... and so forth. It doesn't matter if you have 20 STL's and $20,000 worth of volume... you are still stuck on at GTL.

However, a PTL only needs 2 GTL's to become a PTL... it doesn't matter if he has half the sales volume of the GTL... he is still going to be paid as a PTL.

You will not find any of the current PTL's with SFI in the TOP 50 Leaders... they moved on to other programs long ago. I know that because they have tried to recruit me to the other plans they are now working...

SFI is pretty much worthless to us without a sound and fair residual compensation program.

Take Care

Erich

[Erich]

garovich said:

Erich,

I find it amusing that he thinks that you have somehow drawn the wrong conclusion. After all, it's you cashing the dwindling checks.

Gary

That's right Gary... he just doesn't seem to get it...

Erich

[Lori]

Gery…thank you for posting, but as Chris mentioned…it hasn’t answered any of our concerns.

I would like to say a few things…my STL status should not be judged by what my EA’s decide to do. If they decide to give up and do not have the determination to succeed like I do…why should I lose additional income or be demoted? I work long hours each day on my business and most of the hours are spent on SFI and it is the smallest commission check I receive monthly…does this make sense???

Each month I am struggling to increase my svp. Every month I bring in new EA’s but unfortunately each month I have more EA’s that drop out than renew. There was a month that an affiliate had purchased a case of liquid vitamin. I was excited at first, but then I said OMG…I need an additional 120 svp next month to keep my STL status. Now, I just hope no one ever purchases a case of anything…is that the way you want us to think?

The comp plan may be good for affiliates just starting, but in my opinion, it is not good for affiliates that have put their heart and soul into SFI for years.

The hardest question I have to answer many times from my affiiates is…
How long have you been with SFI and how much money do you earn? The answer is truly embarrassing.

I along with many others at this forum have proven we have what it takes be successful. There’s a little inspirational story I posted not long ago. Check it out here at:
erichw33.proboards53.com/index.cgi?board=wahs&action=display&thread=1142164940
and you will see who I thank. I wish I could have thanked SFI, but my SFI commissions couldn’t buy one tire. One thing I am grateful for about SFI is… that is how I met Erich.

I am certainly not trying to start any arguments…I’m simply voicing my opinion. I don’t consider myself giving up on SFI…I feel SFI has given up on me.

Lori

[Sandi Moses]

When the T-Net was first introduced, Erich was one of the most vociferous opponents of the plan. Gery insisted Erich just didn't "get it" and eventually Erich agreed to give it a fair shot and see if Gery was in fact right and it would be lucrative after all. After almost 18 months, I think Erich has made his point.

Gery has insisted from Day One that you do not have to spend a dime to become EA. While that is technically true, almost all new affiliates are not experienced sales people and are not able to convince anyone to buy anything no matter how good the product might be. People have literally begged for a catalog of products - the thread is one of the oldest still active on the d-board - and still SFI refuses. A catalog would go far in helping people get off the ground in selling products. They might never get rich, but they would remain EA and remain in the program and that would benefit everybody. If people remain in the program, there is residual income for affiliates and there is income to be made for the company. When people drop out like flies as they are now doing, nobody wins.

The qualifications to achieve certain income levels might seem fine to Gery at the top but are out of reach to Sandi and a bizillion others at the bottom. Every cotton-picking month I get that infernal message that "all you have to do is" refer one more BTL to become STL.. What part of "if it were that easy I would have done it months ago" does SFI not get? My one and only BTL would love to throw things at her computer when that message arrives!

Many of SFI's products are priced just fine - such as VAPC which is concentrated and the Liquid Nutrition which tastes better than anything available locally and is priced the same or even better. But why anyone would pay to ship a gallon of laundry detergent across country when you can buy the Consumer Reports' highest rated product for $11--12 at Costco is beyond me!

Another issue I have with the pay structure is that it is far more beneficial to keep someone as a customer than it is to sign them up under you as an affiliate. If I sell a bottle of Liquid Nutrition to a neighbor, I make $15.20. If I sign that neighbor up as an affiliate and they buy their bottle from their own Affiliate Store, I make $1.19. That neighbor would have to become one heck of an affiliate for me to even break even on that deal, and the statistical chances of that happening are the big three: slim, fat, and none.

I'm sure I could make more points, but I have to get ready for work.

[Erich]

Thanks Sandi and Lori for your insightful thoughts, concerns, and giving us some of your past SFI history. Gery says I don't get it... I say he is out of touch and up in an ivory tower. He is a millionaire from from all our work and sales... and we can't even make a fair profit.

Take Care

Erich

[bornagain]

How disappointing. I was hoping, as many others were, that Gery would address some or all of the concerns that you (Erich) originally posted. Unfortunately, he sounded more like a politician...pretending to answer a concern/question without ever doing so.

Gery,
Thank you for coming here and posting but I have to agree with the concerns posted here so far. I have been a member of SFI since 2003. I was fortunate that I signed up a person right away that went gangbusters and signed up many people which for most months, paid for my MIQ/EA status.

As I said, most months. There were several that came down to the last day of the month and me ordering something that I did not need or could afford to retain my rank/status.

I too have sunk too much money into co-ops and advertising to see this as a vital part of my online business future. I will not continue to promote it as I have been without some sort of changes taking place.

You mention upcoming changes and I know that no one want to "let the cat out of the bag", but from past experience, big announcements haven't been that "big" as far as I am concerned. They may be making the company money but the affiliates (the ones bringing in the money) are suffering.

Craig

[apcameron]

Hi,

As a SFI member I too have been disappointed with the results I have been getting. I do get a small check but I spend more time and effort on it than I receive in compensation.

The Compensation needs to change to make a worth the effort.

Andrew

[gainingprofit]

I'm so glad that everyone is comming out of there shell and addressing there opinions about this issue because there is alot of stuff that needs to be said and hopefully these things will get taken care of. I had about 8 links to my SFI site averaging about 1-5 affiliate a day with less then 140 visitors a day to my site!

But now i have taken about 6 links off my site and replaced them with better opportunities just to see how much better they will convert!

Thanks for nothing Gerry because you have provided nothing at all that would make us feel diffrent about what Erich has proven!

Joe

[bosko40]

Wow,
This is an eye opening thread. I thought my slow start with SFI was just my fault. I, like Lori, spend most of my time answering confused affiliate emails, than I do promoting my site like I should. I have created 4-5 different response letters, a Next Steps plan thats about 27 pages long, and still my check last month, which came today incidentally, was $92. I spend well over $300 per month promoting this opportunity with the hopes of a residual at the end. If there is none, then I agree with Erich--SFI is worthless to us. To compare, 2 Clickbank checks today totaling about $2000 for 15 days, vs. $92 for 30 days with SFI. Which is better?

I guess I better change my Leaders Club leads email series to Better Universe or something. Personally, Gery's comments did sound like a politician. He said and alot and answered nothing. Erich keep us posted on any new ops you find.
Adam

[Gery Carson]

Good evening,

Erich has asked me to continue with the discussion started last night.

Let's start here: It sounds like almost everyone wants to blame the SFI comp plan. I also hear it very strongly that "there's no residual income" in the SFI comp plan. I think you're going to be very surprised then by what I have to say.

Let's start by looking at how T-Net breaks down, how each dollar in commissions is paid out:

A. T-Net Level Commissions: 72% (12 levels x 6%)
B. Business Builder Bonuses: 12%
C. Powerpoints Leadership Bonus Pool: 12%
D. Guaranteed Commission Check Pool: 4%
---------------
Total 100%

BOTH "A" and "C" are essentially residual income. So 84% of T-Net is residual income.

"B" is the Business Builders Bonus. BBB is there to provide the "quick profits/fast start" style income in T-Net. The qualifications for BBBs are simple and easily met, and the payout is very high. Indeed, at it's highest level, you can earn a $30 BBB on a $25 sale. That's right, you can earn 120% commissions on your sales. As you help your EAs move up in rank, you can earn a total of $420 on EACH person. We feel this is a very exciting part of the compensation plan!

"D" is the percentage that funds our Fast-Track guaranteed commission check program. Every month, around one thousand new EAs get a commission check sent to them of around $6-$8. No, it's not a major amount, but what it does is show new EAs that SFI is a real company, that pays out real money. Additionally, it provides a very nice incentive for new affiliates to upgrade. It is another very strong component of T-Net.

Let's look a little closer at the residual income of T-Net now. SFI's philosophy is that if you want to build an organization and then "retire," great. More power to you. That's one of the biggest benefits of network marketing after all and so we strongly support that in our plan with the 72% payout of "A." However, if you want the other 12% provided by "C", we expect you to be FULLY engaged with SFI.

We expect you to be actively supporting your organization, bringing in new affiliates, developing new Team Leaders, etc. EVERY MONTH like Erich Winnecke. If you are not, then we believe those who ARE should get this 12%. That's why "C" is a POOL. If you are active, working hard, and meet the SVP qualifications, you can earn shares from this pool every month. In short, "C" is a BONUS --a REWARD for an active leaders who are growing their groups every month. If you're not active, you probably won't qualify for "C" very often if ever.

T-Net also features Dynamic Compression. DC is actually a VERY powerful component of T-Net. Instead of earning just 6% on a level in your T-Net organization, DC allows you boost it all the way up to 48%!

One final feature of T-Net is that once you've achieved the level of Platinum Team Leader, you can start ANOTHER T-Net 2x12 network if you want. This allows essentially UNLIMITED potential earnings.

So, let's add it up. T-Net is 84% residual income (72% from "A" and 12% from the "C" leadership bonus), 12% BBB "front-end" income, and 4% for the guaranteed first month check program to help drive upgrades.

Then there's Dynamic Compression which boosts the amounts you can earn on each level of your T-Net network and, finally, the "Multi-Network" option means there's never a ceiling on how much you can earn.

In all, we believe T-Net is just the right balance of residual vs. front end income, while also providing ample leadership bonuses for the real go-getters.

Now let's look at some of the qualifications. This is one area where I know there are concerns and we are very open to making adjustments (more on adjustments in a moment).

1. The qualifications for "D" is to simply upgrade to EA within your first 30 days in SFI. We believe this is simple and fair.

2. The qualifications for "B" is simply to be an EA yourself. With that, you earn from $10 - $30 on each new person you help advance to EA, starting with your very first EA. Again, we believe the qualifications here are simple and fair.

3. The qualifications for "A" begin with simply being an EA. From there, you'll earn from more and more levels of your T-Net organization the higher you climb in rank (e.g. BTL, STL, GTL, PTL).
This is considered a standard "stair-step" qualification. Each step up provides the incentive to continue advancing in rank. Once again, we feel the qualifications to earn these commissions are fair and appropriate.

Now let's drill down a little deeper and look at the qualifications for each of the Team Leader ranks themselves.

Currently...
...to be a BTL, you need to personally refer 2 EAs
...to be a STL, you need to personally refer 2 BTLs
...to be a GTL, you need to personally refer 2 STLs
...to be a PTL, you need to personally refer 2 GTLs

How did we arrive at these qualifications? First of all, there needs to be just the right amount of requirements to move from one rank to another. Make them too high and no one advances. Make them too low and the leadership income in your comp plan is diluted away --which is very, very bad.

Let me elaborate on dilution so this is clear. Leaders who are working hard, working with lots of people, and doing all the things that a top leader needs to do in a network marketing organization, DESERVE to be paid well. They have earned it. Period. If he or she cannot, because the rank advancement qualifications are set too low, the entire organization will fall apart. So again, the key is to have just the right balance.

We believe that the SFI Team Leader rank requirements may not be too high necessarily, but they may be too "inflexible."

I'd like to add here, so that you all understand where we are coming from, that there has always been enormous pressure on us from the field to "make the comp plan SIMPLE!" We hear it CONSTANTLY. That's why we made the requirements for the different Team Leader ranks what they are today. You can't get much simpler than "find two go-getters and help them get to GTL" which has been the recipe for becoming a PTL yourself.

However, we gave up flexibility in order to have this simplicity. So, here is a proposed change we are considering:

Let's say that a BTL is worth "1 point."
A STL is worth 2 points.
A GTL is worth 4 points.
And a PTL is worth 8 points.

To qualify as an STL you need 2 pts so you could have:
2 BTLs (2 pts) or
1 STL (2 pts)

To qualify as a GTL you need 4 pts so you could have:
1 GTL (4 pts) or
2 STLs (4 pts) or
4 BTLs (4 pts)
or any combination of 4 pts or more

To qualify as a PTL you need 8 pts so you could have:
1 PTL (8 pts) or
2 GTLs (8 pts) or
4 STL (8 pts) or
8 BTLs (8 pts)
or any combination of 8 pts or more

The leader of this forum, Erich Winnecke, would immediately ascend to Platinum Team Leader under these new qualifications. And no doubt many, many other Team Leaders would also see an advancement in their rank.

What are YOUR thoughts on this proposal? Perhaps there are other, better ideas? The floor is open for your input.

The last remaining qualification to discuss is that for the Powerpoints Pool (PPP). As noted earlier, the Powerpoints Pool is for SFI's ACTIVE leaders. It rewards SFI's best and hardest-working leaders for growing their business.

If you're not familiar with the PPP qualifications, they are very simple (again, we worked very hard in the design of T-Net to keep all qualifications and the comp plan itself as simple as possible). To earn shares of the PPP:

1. You must be at least a STL.
2. Your PPP SVP must exceed that of the month before.

If you meet these qualifications, you will earn one share of the PPP for each SVP if you are a STL. You will earn TWO shares of the PPP for each SVP if you are a GTL. Or you will earn THREE shares for each SVP if you are a PTL.

Erich has contended that it is impossible to grow every month. Therefore, even an extremely dedicated and active leader like Erich can sometimes miss out on this leadership bonus. Indeed, that's what happened to Erich in April and was essentially the sole reason for his drop in commissions. Had Erich met the PPP qualifications, we estimate his income would have been approximately $4000 - $5000 more than it was.

So let's look at this. The PPP is a pool designed to reward the workers, right? If we lower the qualifications, that means that leaders who are NOT particularly active can again be drawing shares from the leadership pool --and those that ARE active would be earning significantly less commissions. We don't want that.

But then we have Erich's situation. Was Erich extremely active in April. Of course he was! Yet he came up just a little short on the SVP requirement, so he missed out on a very sizable bonus.

So we have a dilemma. How do you keep the qualifications high enough so that the pool is not diluted into "pocket change?" while still allowing leaders who are obviously meeting our definition of being active to earn shares?

We have some ideas on this. I'm not going to share them here just yet as we are looking at multiple possibilities, but we ARE going to address this. Obviously the last thing we want is to see our top, most active leaders being hurt.

OK, let's move on now to the interesting point I raised at the very beginning of this letter. That is, the SFI comp plan may not be the culprit many of you think it is.

I've seen several comments implying that there is "no" residual income in T-Net. Considering that T-Net is essentially at least 72% residual, something doesn't add up now, does it?

The fact is, T-Net DOES pay out 72% (or 84% if you qualify for PPP) in residual income.

If you have $100,000 CV (Commission Volume) in your T-Net organization's group volume, it will pay out 84% or $84,000 to the 12 levels of people in the organization.

If on the other hand that CV is only $10,000, it's going to only pay out $8400.

So the key is not the comp plan. Rather, it is the VOLUME of sales occurring in your organization. More sales = more CV = more residual income. It's as simple as that.

We could turn T-Net from a 2x12 to a 3x9 or a 5x5 or whatever and it would still pay 84% on whatever volume was in the group. Likewise, we could go to a Unilevel plan or Australian 2-Up or a Binary, or any other comp plan, but it would still be about the volume.

T-Net may need some tweaks on some of its qualifications as we've already covered, but T-Net is NOT the problem in my opinion. It only looks that way because, well, when you're talking about COMPENSATION, it's natural to focus on the COMPENSATION plan.

Here's something else that I want everyone to REALLY get:

To compare anyone's SFI earnings from the year 2000 to today is simply not fair. SFI does not operate in a vacuum. The marketplace has changed DRAMATICALLY over the past five years.

In 2000, SFI was pioneering network marketing on the Internet. There were few competitors. More importantly, spam had not yet become the epidemic it has become.

Back then, and through 2002, our emails got delivered AND people opened and read our emails.

The fact is, SFI is built on email. Today, because of the spammers of the world, we have to work ten times harder to get our emails delivered and read.

ISPs have MULTITUDES of filters to keep the spam from reaching their subscribers. And Individuals have even more filters on their private email accounts. Spammers have deeply, deeply hurt the marketplace we operate in. And because of it, we are far, far from our peak in revenues in 2001.

NO ONE earns the kind of money SFI was paying out in 2001. Not because of the comp plan, but because the volume of revenue flowing through SFI has decreased substantially due to greatly altered marketplace.

In fact, I am 100% certain that SFI would have been paid out even BIGGER checks in 2001 if we had T-Net then. I have studied every facet of network marketing comp plans over the past 20 years and I believe that T-Net is, without question, the best comp plan we have ever had. Period.

In addition to the huge challenge of successfully navigating a world of spam filter landmines, THOUSANDS of competitors (many who have copied SFI) have entered the marketplace. Worse, many (most?) have few morals or are simply ignorant of the laws required of a legitimate network marketing company.

They will say anything and promise you the moon because they frankly don't care if people get hurt. It's just a "money grab" for them. And, anyway, even if they get shut down, they can pop-up under another name the next week.

SFI doesn't work that way. Our comp plan has been approved by the top network marketing attorneys in the world. Our products are real. Our people are real. You can come to our offices or warehouse and visit with us.

We are in our 21st year of business, with a tremendous track record of success. We are members of the Better Business Bureau and Chamber of Commerce. We have donate tens of thousands of dollars to charities every year. We are a company that you can be proud to be a part of, that you can tell your friends and family about.

And unlike 99% of our competitors, we are here for the LONG-TERM. I want each and every one of you to someday be able to will your residual income to your children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. While our competitors barely consider occurrences even a year from now, we're already developing plans for 5, 10, and 15 years out.

SFI doesn't take short cuts that you have to pay for in the long run. We don't push the legal envelope. We are building something substantial and meaningful. And, yes, we CARE deeply about all of our affiliates. SFI is my life's work and dream. I've been working on it now for over 20 years and yet we've only just begun.

The best days of SFI are clearly in the future...because we do things right and we do right by our affiliates ALWAYS. The competition doesn't have a chance long term.

Now let's go back to those dang spammers! It's very depressing, isn't it, having to work ten times harder to get a sale than it did a few years ago? It is and it isn't in my opinion.

Challenge makes you strong. Spammers have made SFI stronger in many ways that will pay off in the future.

But the best news is that technology IS getting on top of the situation. It may not look that way sometimes, but the day is coming when spam will be controlled. In the meantime, SFI continue to innovate, and continues to add and build its foundation.

And when that day comes when technology finally closes out the Unregulated Internet Spam chapter, SFI will once again experience massive growth. Count on it! That's why I implore all of our leaders to build your network. You're building a gold mine. And always remember, NOTHING WORTHWHILE IS EVER EASY!

So what is the conclusion to this very, very long post? It is this: SFI's comp plan is only a small part of the successful company we are all trying to build.

Much more important than the comp plan are our products, and our marketing system -- which we are working on constantly and in numerous ways.

I liken the situation to baseball. If you go up to the plate and swing hard every time, you're eventually going to hit a home run. Folks, we are swinging hard every day. Every day more data is analyzed, leading us ever closer to the "sweet spot" of maximum upgrades. Every day more tests are ran. Every day new ideas and enhancements are put into developments. If you want to know one thing about SFI, it is this. We are progressive, we are innovative, and we NEVER rest on our laurels!!

The home run is coming. It may come tomorrow. It may come next month or next year. But it IS coming. In 20 years we've hit that home run many times and you can rest assured we will do it again.

I hope you will be with us when that ball clears the fence. The future is bright indeed!

Sincerely,

Gery Carson
SFI Founder & President


05/19/06- Addendum from Admin:

Gery has made an extremely long and detailed post. He has has obviously heard us... Our moderators and managers have all agreed this should be posted. I am witholding my comments until I get more details from Gery on a couple of things...
Erich

[Sandi Moses]

So why is it that everyone here on this board is busting their butts for hours a day marketing SFI in every way imaginable, and making little or no profit? People cannot afford to lose money for years waiting for that "home run." No matter how good it sounds, for whatever reason, it's not working.

[klpetty]

Gery and Erich,

I feel I qualify as something of an SFI Pioneer because I've been with SFI for about 5 years and have seen drastic changes in the Compensation Plan. I agree that there needs to be more residual cash for Sponsored EAs. Back in 2001 we got a significant amount of residual cash from then MIQs. (Multi-Income Qualified) affiliates. I was heavy into promoting SFI via PPCs and was consistently in the top 15 and even cracked the top five once. That was excellent. My pay was about $1500 to $2000 per month. (High Month was over $4000) And then the comp plan changed, and changed, and changed, and changed, and the residual rewards went away as did my income. It went down to less than $200 per month and so I quit with PPCs because I was losing a lot of money. (Wish we'd have had 3-Phase Profits back then cause I'd be making about $10,000 or so per month now)

Now, on the flip side, I did see my SFI pay leap up to almost $500 for April, but that's a side effect of being in 3-PPP because yes, the BizOpps, Affiliate Fuels, Clickbanks, etc all are working well and have me in profit mode, which equates to being able to have a heavy presence in PPCs again. I would not be in profit mode if for SFI alone, but combined I'm doing great. Still, I know for sure that I would be doing significantly better if there was a higher monthly payout for sponsored EAs.

I understand the emphasis for great bonuses for achieving ranks, but making and maintaining the various ranks have been hard, and affiliates who don't have the training and savvy that some of us old vets have may get frustrated and quit. Heck, that's already happened in my T-Net to two extremely motivated and productive people. They hit a wall and got frustrated and quit. If, for example, SFI could put $9 or $10 into the Sponsor's pocket for each EA, and still put something aside for the T-Net, I'm sure there would be more overall growth. This may take some of the sweetness out of the advancement bonuses, but there would be bonuses nonetheless, and more affiliates would stay EA much longer because once they attain three or four sponsored EAs they are more comfortable with being EAs themselves and keep going to get into a good profit mode.

SFI is seeing a rise in sign-ups and EAs, true, but that's because there is a tremendous amount of up-front marketing. My experience is that after the honeymoon is over, and a lot of people who EA don't see much beyond the few dollars they get don't stick around long enough to fully develop and grow their programs. If you sweeten the long term with easy to get and easy to sustain results then you will see much less attrition and more happier EA Sponsors. In short, Pay Peter to Pay Peter, and Peter will stick with the program.

In a business such as SFI where affiliate pay is generated through affiliate sales it's tough to come up with a comp plan that will benefit and make everyone happy. No doubt SFI's comp plan is decent, but it could be better. You're never going to satisfy everyone, that's just the nature of the beast, but if you can make it easier to keep people involved longer then you will have broken the code.

And as Forrest Gump once said, "That's all I got to say about that."
-Kevin

[Hank and Dot]

After sitting by the computer the other night waiting for Gery Carson's first response, we were like "What?? He didn't say anything". Oh, well.

A very major concern of ours is what the advertising of SFI can do to our reputation at this moment.

We receive emails from people daily asking "is this real" "can you really make a living doing this?". Of course a link to our website is in our signature. From our website is a link back to this forum, which contains this thread.

All they have to do is check this thread to see it DOES NOT work.

How can anyone trust us about our other offers if one of the #1 offers on our site is not what is seems to be?

We feel that until Gery Carson resolves these issues, it is best for us to totally remove SFI from our site.

Just our opinion.

Hank and Dot

[Sandi Moses]

b123home said:

So why is it that everyone here on this board is busting their butts for hours a day marketing SFI in every way imaginable, and making little or no profit? People cannot afford to lose money for years waiting for that "home run." No matter how good it sounds, for whatever reason, it's not working.

Adding to my own post here because I was really tired last night and didn't finish my thoughts;

What Gery posted was basically what he posted in defense of the T-Net Compensation Plan when it first came out and people were seeing their incomes plummet. The gist of the argument is * . . . . . . but look at the potential!*

The same thing is said about every crop of college athletes headed for the pro's. But if they don't produce, they ain't worth a plug nickel. And the same thing can be said about the T-Net. It can have all the potential in the world, but if no one can make it produce, then it isn't much good.

I look forward to the changes. The key is to make becoming EA easy and remaining EA both easy and lucrative. When many people can do that, they will remain EA and then everybody wins.

Just another dose of my 2 cents . . .

Sandi

[bornagain]

Erich,

Thanks for keeping up updated. I truly hope, for our benefit, other affiliates benefti, and also for SFI's benefit, the changes Gery is going to propose will be serious enough to impact everyone.

I look forward to your new posting.

Craig

[olander]

Thanks Erich for your honesty about your SFI experience

And thanks Gery for taking the time to post in our forum.
I also hope you can go in details about the "real" concerns

[zeta]

Erich and evryone else,
These posts have been very interesting to say the least. My heart goes out to all of you that are saying how long you have been in and the amount of money invested in advertising. I know you have all worked very hard on it believing it would "work". I am so new in all this, even though it is frustrating and I was struggling learning "SFI" myslef, if it is not the one for our 3 phrase then lets find something we can all make money on and not be so confusing.
Zeta

[Erich]

Hello Everyone

The 3 Phase Moderators, Managers, and myself all agree that Gerys post should be allowed here. Therefore you can now read what he has to say about the T-Net Compensation plan...along with a few other things.

I will be making my comments after I hear back from him regarding clarification on a couple of related issues...

Take Care

Erich

[awesome]

Erich,

I realize that this is a personal issue as it directly impacts your income but I appreciate that you have pressed Gery to take a serious look at the concerns that are not only yours but all of ours that have been promoting SFI.

I look forward to hearing what changes are being made and hope to continue promoting SFI as a real opportunity for myself and my downline.

Tim

[Erich]

Jeff & Tim...

I appreciate your comments. Yes this new change will impact me possitively but I am not the only one... it will also have a major impact on all 3PP members. Some immediately and others in the near future. This is a positive step forward.

However, we still need to know if he is actually going to do something with the "Power Points Pool" progressive qualification??

We also need at least some surface information on just what these mysterious "Two MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH programs" are all about and whether they will impact EA upgrade rates and help in lowering the attrition rate issue.

I've recd a bundle of emails and PM's on these issues... so everyone is interested and waiting to see. It is really kind of amusing how many people are afraid to post in a thread like this and prefer to remain in the background. I've had over 15 people who are among out Leaders contact me privately and encourage me on...

We'll see what happens...

Erich

[Skyrocket]

If you've visited this area of the forum before you will have seen my thread asking: SFI - Turning A's to EA's what's the secret?

I posted this thread because I was getting loads of A's but found it near on impossible to convert them to EA's. Some would contact me by email, I'd reply and never hear from them again! I guess that tells me a lot about my email technique Well there was some great advice shared in that thread and I did take on a lot of the techniques that had been successful, I even used emails by other successful SFI Team Leaders, but I still have an issue getting EA's, despite getting new A's daily. The great news is I've now sponsered my first EA! Now of course I'm worried about keeping him

Why am I telling you this? Well after reading through Gery's latest suggestion and information and with talk of improving the PPP I'm beginning to come around to the idea that I could actually start making SFI work for me. It's starting to give me confidence once again in the opportunity. What Gery is proposing so far means that not only will it help motivate me into action it will also motivate my downline, the knock on effect of course is more probability of success within my team and the team is more likely to stick around for longer bringing that important residual income.

I'm really thankful to Erich for his courage in taking this on. He is a true leader that has proven time and time again that he is prepared to go to any lengths to ensure that we only deal with the best companies with the best opportunity to make good money. If you are reading this and thinking "Yeah, but he's really only thinking about his own income and sour about losing out on his bonus", then you are being very short sighted. If Erich kept quiet about this he would still be making more money per month from SFI alone than most of us earn in six months from our sites. He could have quite easily let us all carry on struggling with SFI, paying money to remain an EA so that he could rake in the commissions. The fact is he didn't. He has shown us once again that he is a man with a high level of integrity.

Now it looks like the risk and Erich's unrelenting efforts are paying off. He has the CEO of a Multi-Million Dollar company answering our calls for a fairer and more successful Commission/Compensation plan. I can't wait to see what Gery has for us in a revised Power Points Pool. He seems to now understand exactly what we want and need to stick with SFI, so I'm sure he'll come up with the goods. When he does lets get behind it and reap the rewards of Erich's efforts, which in turn will reward Erich and send a huge thank you.

But for now Erich, please accept a small "Thank You" from me

[rossfreiberg]

Hello There

I have been reading through these posts over the last couple of days and my emotions have been going up and down and all over the place as I have been reading them. I suppose because I thought I had finally found a good opportunity with SFI, after literally years of looking, both on and offline.

I am involved with 3PP and have my site nearly ready for Phase 2 after a lot of what was for me a very difficult learning curve. What the heck now !!

These events I find quite devastating.

Sometimes I believe MLM companies and the leadership develop what looks like a good plan on paper but they often do this without consulting the people this effects the most which is their members.

Please don't go down this path Gery. (I know you are watching !!)

Thanks Jim for your post above. I want to have the same attitude as you which is one of moving forward together.

Thanks,
Ross.

[Skyrocket]

Hi Ross,

I know it's hard but try to look at this without attaching emotions to it and what you will see is a very good judgement call by Erich to SFI both on his arguement and the way in which he decided to approach them. These are my own thoughts and nothing that Erich has told me, but the way I see it is that Erich will have thought about the possible outcomes to his actions. He will have come up with a few possible outcomes, the main two however would be 1) Gery argues that there is nothing wrong with the comp plan and he can go to hell, or 2) This sends a sharp message to Gery that makes him sit up and take action.

I bet when you first saw this thread you where quite shocked. Well this is exactly what Erich would've wanted as this is how Gery would have reacted too. I'm sure that Erich wanted the shock to go to Gery, not the 3PPP members here, however there was no way to have one without the other. The shock technique worked, not only because of the style in which it was done but because Erich was/is absolutely serious about it. This wasn't a clever technique by Erich to manipulate SFI into changing the Comp Plan to his advantage, this was a heart felt decision of true integrity by Erich. Gery knows this and it's why he is now reviewing the whole thing so that we get a better deal as loyal affiliates.

Bottom line is that SFI is still an excellent company. They still hold a high position of respect in the MLM community of online businesses. The opportunity is still strong and it's just about to get even better. Gery wants you to be proud to be a part of SFI and he's now working hard to make that reality. Erich's attack on SFI was not about the company buy about the compensation plan. Most companies get things wrong every now and then, as you said, looks good on paper but not in reality. Erich just made it clear that he was not prepared to accept the latest change due to the unrealistic demands of the comp plans PPP bonus qualification. I mean it's quite hard to accept that you've just missed out on $4,000!

My god I can waffle on can't I! All I'm saying is don't start doubting SFI as a company that you can promote heavily, not just yet. IF Gery comes back with a solid plan that fairly rewards those that put in the effort then that's all I'll need to keep them as #1 Home Based Business on my site. They have everything else in place for me to confidently promote them. Well, apart from a magic formula to turn A's into EA's!

I apologise for going on a bit here, it's late and I've just finished a hard week at work, so it's highly likely I've just typed a load of jibberish. I'll probably review and change in the morning!

[Roy]

Eric, Gery and other SFI Affiliates

I still think SFI commission plan is OK, not perfect but OK. The fault with SFI is the product lines. I will ask this question again, how many customers do you have for SFI? If SFI had a good product to sale to the consumer, their will be no problem with expense or keeping or obtaining EA. Your free affiliate would buy product they need and use at a reasonable price (delivered) because they could use them. Then they would qualify for EA and sell product to other also. They could sale the product to consumer, which is by the way how a MLM program should work, and never buy a product themselves to keep their status. Any MLM need some good saleable product. The problem with SFI is we the affiliates are the buyer of our product, just to keep ours STATUS. Products, we don’t need or use. (It they were products we need and used, we would not be complaining so must).

As for Gery idea on changing TEAM RANK qualification: I think it will dilute the Powerpoints Leadership Bonus Pool. I think an increase in the running average for the Powerpoints Leadership Bonus Pool qualification could solve the problem of up and down commission payment:
Example if for 12 month you did the following volume

$1100, $1200, $1300, $1400, $1500, $1600, $1700, $1800, $1900, $2000, $2100, $2200

and for the next month you did $1700 .Then your running average will be

Sum of ($1100, $1200, $1300, $1400, $1500, $1600, $1700, $1800, $1900, $2000, $2100, $2200) /12 = $1650 for previous 12 months

Sum of ($1100, $1200, $1300, $1400, $1500, $1600, $1700, $1800, $1900, $2000, $2100, $2200, 1700) /13 = $1654 for previous 13 months

An other option is you could use a percent (let said 90%) of the running average. Then if you have 12 month of $1000 each your running average would be $1000, but 90% would be $900. So as long as you did $901 you would still qualify.

If you running average increase you still qualify for your bonus. If you stop promoting and most of your SV was in new EA then you may lose your Powerpoints Leadership Bonus Pool. But if your SV is in promote other TEAM LEADER then you SV should still could still increase from the previous month

An other thing that could be done is only do T-Net with 10 levels deep and uses the 12% saving as a reoccurring bonus to sponsor of EA (this give each affiliate a 18% on each personally sponsored EA PV). This would give each affiliate a reoccurring payment each month (base on the average 19 SV) of $3.42 for each personally sponsors EA.

In addition to the above or separated SFI could also use the Business Builder Bonuses: 12% reoccurring bonus to the sponsor of EA (this give each affiliate a 30% on each personally sponsored EA PV). This would give each affiliate a reoccurring payment each month (base on the average 19 SV) of $5.70 for each personally sponsors EA.

With these change we has:
A. T-Net Level Commissions: 60% (10 levels x 6%)
B. Business Builder Bonuses: 0%
C. Powerpoints Leadership Bonus Pool: 12%
D. Guaranteed Commission Check Pool: 4%
E. Sponsor reoccurring Commission Check 24%
---------------
Total 100%


I know a lot of TEAM LEADER makes lots of money off the Business Builder Bonuses. But, I honest believe if the Business Builder Bonuses is used for reoccurring commission it would help build a deeper and wider T-Net.

Thanks,
Roy

P.S. I am new to SFI only since October 2005, so I may be omitting something.

[Sandi Moses]

Whatever Gery comes up with the benefits have to start at the bottom. People need to be able to make a profit with or without a downline. If they can make a profit without a downline, then when they begin to acquire a downline, those new people will stay because they will also be able to make a profit, so the profits of the upline will continue to grow. The way it is now new people come on board all excited (on the discussion board they remind me of Odie the dog in the Garfield strip) (sorry, but they do) but after 2-3 months of losing money they quit, taking their contributions (aka upline profits) with them. And who can blame them? Gery has said that he lost money for 2 years before he began to turn a profit. How many people can afford to do that? Most will drop out to stop the bleeding, lick their wounds and move on, probably with a bitter taste in their mouths.

I am looking forward to what Gery has to say - and I have to say that I am impressed that he would take the time to come and deal with us here. I truly hope that whatever he comes up with will be a win-win change.

Sandi

[Sandra]

I'm pleased that Gery has addressed our concerns more thoroughly. It's nice to see that he is indeed open to changes in order to improve SFI and make his affiliates more happy. It is obvious in his message that he's still trying to "sell" the idea that SFI is the best, that its future is so bright, etc etc. However, when I read through it I found myself thinking: "hey, this point system would make a lot of sense...", it would make it somewhat easier to qualify for higher ranks without being unfair to affiliates that put a lot of time and effort into it. This plan is a lot more flexible, which is something that is currently lacking and that we all complained about.

I agree that it'd be a shame for many of us to quit after all the time, effort, and money we've put into it and what we've accomplished so far. I think we should give SFI a second chance.... see what these improvements and new "breakthrough programs" will bring us. And then we can review it later on when we'll have had time to see results (or not!)

Sandra

[gainingprofit]

I have taken off many of the affiliate links to my sfi site that has gotten me around 1-5 affiliates each and every day ... and for me to not take this opportunity off completely i have to be sure that we can all make SFI profitable!

This does sound to good and it seems like this still doesn't address our residual income issue? Maybe that is just my opinion but until i hear diffrently about the situation from some of our fellow members then i will not promote SFI as hard as i did before!

Joe

[Lori]

Thank you Gery…

I am very happy to hear that changes will be made. I believe these changes will help many of us tremendously and has given me back some of the hope and confidence I needed to continue promoting SFI. I also am looking forward to hear about your PPP qualifications proposal??? If it’s as good as the point system…I’ll be a happy camper.

Thank you Erich…

What else can I say that you haven’t heard from me many times…but what the heck…I’ll say it again…

I have a great respect for you Erich and I am soooo very proud to be a special part of your team.
I don’t think there is anyone that would have done what you did for all of us. Your honesty and integrity has always kept me safe and helped me make the right choices. I trust every word you say and where ever you go…I won’t be far behind!

I must admit, it was a bit scary to push that “post reply button” with my concerns and experiences…but I felt it was something that had to be heard by all and not kept inside of me.

Now, it’s time to get back to work and make lots of money...how’s that sound!!!

Lori